Questions and Answers, Part 16

Transcript

GRM 1219
03/03/2019
Questions and Answers, Part 16
Selected Verses
Gil Rugh

I had a question that came in, in connection with our Questions and Answers and I thought that I would at least address part of it as part of our communion service this evening because it has to do with the offerings of the Old Testament. So, if you want to turn in your bibles to Leviticus 1, and I’m just going to focus on one offering here, but it would give us something of a pattern that would be followed in the offerings of the Old Testament. There’s variation in them. But the book of Leviticus and the Lord giving instructions. He spoke to the Lord from the tent of meeting, and we’ll do a little diagram of Solomon’s temple in a moment, but here we have the Old Testament tabernacle which is smaller but the same pattern that was used for Solomon’s temple.

He (God) “spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, ‘Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, “When any man of you brings an offering to the Lord, you shall bring your offering of animals from the herd or the flock. If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he shall offer it, a male without defect; he shall offer it at the doorway of the tent of meeting, that he may be accepted before the Lord. He shall lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, that it may be accepted for him to make atonement on his behalf. He shall slay the young bull before the Lord; and Aaron’s sons the priests shall offer up the blood and sprinkle the blood around on the altar that is at the doorway of the tent of meeting. He shall then skin the burnt offering and cut it into its pieces. The sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, the head…” the rest of the parts, the entrails and so on, and it will be offered as a burnt offering to the Lord. The entire offering is to be consumed in the fire. Different than the other offerings. The priests didn’t get a portion, nor could the offeror have a portion. But this entire offering is to be consumed. The skin could be given to the priest. If it wasn’t given to the priest, it had to be burnt as an offering as well. Then if they offer a sheep… you have the instructions for various animals.

Want to put the diagram up there? You can see the picture. And this obviously is not the tabernacle, but it’s the same layout, enlarged inside when Solomon built his permanent temple, the permanent structure. The tabernacle under Moses obviously was a temporary, transitory structure. And served a purpose up until the time Solomon built his temple. But the structure is the same. You see the large laver there, called the sea in your bible, probably for washing, for the priests to wash themselves in that ceremonial cleansing, before they go about their activity. And then you have the altar there, with the fire, the steps leading up to it, outside the temple proper, or the tabernacle as it would have been in Moses’s day. And that’s where the offering would be offered. And the procedure that they went through. The person would bring his offering. It had to be without defect to be offered to the Lord. You couldn’t pick out something that wouldn’t be as costly to you. This perfect male animal would be the sacrifice. And we’re familiar in the New Testament, the picture of Christ. He was sinless, without any defect in that sense. So, He was the fit and acceptable offering.

Well, what would happen, you bring this offering in and the priest is there to meet you and you have to slay the animal. And so, in the instructions given, the person bringing the offering would lay his hand on that animal. And the word there, used for laying, is for pressing. So, he would be pressing his hand on the head of that animal, and he would take the knife and slice the throat under the head of that animal. And the priest is there, standing there beside that place where the offering will be made. It’s laid down there below the steps. The priest is there with a bowl and he catches the blood. And so, you have the picture of that animal’s life expiring as that person has held his head on there and sliced the throat. And now he’s holding that animal and the priest is there catching the blood, as the life of that animal drains out. Then, when that animal has expired, the priest takes that blood, and he goes to the northeast corner. And the tabernacle here faces east, so you’re on the northeast corner and literally, the text says he throws the blood on the corner, on the northeast side. When you throw it at the corner, it would naturally splash out on both sides. Then he goes to the opposite corner and throws the rest of the blood. And so, it would spread out on the other two sides. So, in effect it’s covering the altar, if you will. All sides of the altar have been impacted by the blood. And then they were to take that animal and cut it into the pieces as it’s pictured there. The scribe there in Leviticus 1. And then the priest would carry those parts up the steps, and he was responsible to have the fire burning, and place the pieces on the fire so that it is entirely consumed.

And the picture is, the life and that person in his totality belongs to the Lord. That animal has taken his place. Now, that offeror had… not at this period of time as Leviticus is written, would not have known the fullness of what was being pictured here. That God’s Son would be the perfect offering. And His blood, picturing His life would be poured out. And as you note in your bibles, on verse 4, “He shall lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, that it may be accepted for him to make atonement.” That old word that we’ll become familiar with - and it made ‘propitiation,’ expiation - he is bearing the penalty, turning away the wrath of God, this animal is taking his place. The hand on the head. So, understanding that this animal is being accepted by God in my place, my life; this animal is giving his life in my place, is what is being pictured. Now, it becomes a type of the coming Christ, who would give His life. He would make atonement.

Then the parts of that animal were totally consumed. A picture of that life in all of its aspects, belong to the Lord, and was being offered to Him. And as that burning fragrance ascended to God, down at the end of verse 13 for example, the last part of that verse, “it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma,” a pleasing fragrance. It is something that gives God pleasure. Because this person is acknowledging his own guilt and deserving death. And trusting God to accept this sacrifice in his place. It’s an act of faith. And only when this offering is offered in faith. Remember Isaiah the prophet later in Israel’s history - God through Isaiah, would say, stop bringing your offerings, it’s nothing but a sacrilege, you’re trampling My courts, it’s not acceptable. Because they didn’t bring it in faith. So, this person is coming, trusting. The reason I’m bringing this animal, without defects, because I trust You. I believe God, You will accept this animal in my place. His life for my life. But it’s a reminder my life is Yours, it’s being totally consumed in the fire, as belonging to God. So, what is pictured here, we would have in the New Testament, where Paul wrote to the Corinthians, you are no longer your own, you have been bought with a price. So, the picture forms the foundation for what we have. So, how it’s sacrificed, at basically the base of this altar. We call it the burnt offering. The priests were required to keep the fire burning. It is an act of the sacrifice, with this animal, to identify himself with it. God accepts it, to make atonement, to make propitiation.

Come over to the New Testament, the book of Romans 3, where we talk about… and we just have to break into it here, where verse 23 says, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” We’re “being justified,” declared righteous, “as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” Now, note this, “whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation.” And that’s that atonement made. He’s the sacrifice that turns away God’s wrath that’s accepted in my place. So, I don’t have to die and pay the penalty for my sin. God has accepted Christ’s act on my behalf. So, when I place my faith… verse 25, “whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.” So, just as that person in Leviticus 1 brought this sacrifice, it died, and he’s identified with it, when he offers that in faith. Obviously the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. But that one bringing the offering, was believing that God said He would accept this as payment. And the ultimate payment that God could provide for forgiveness would be provided by Christ. But it was a sacrifice and faith in what God promised. And that the offering of this sacrifice is accepted in my place. So, then Christ comes, and all of this was to prepare the way for the coming of Israel’s Messiah. That how many times would this sacrifice be offered? And people come and they go through this action and ritual? And each time they are reminded. This sacrifice is in my place. I believe God You will accept it on my behalf, so that I’m acceptable to You. And can be acceptable in Your sight. But it’s life is drained out. Then it’s consumed on the altar.

So that’s the part each one plays. The individual brings the sacrifice. Is involved in killing the sacrifice. The priest catches the blood and applies it, if you will, to the altar by throwing it up against the altar. That this is offered to God. It’s the life given to Him on your behalf. And then the rest of it is consumed; that all of me is the Lord’s. And would be repeated over, many times over in a lifetime.

Now, we come to the reality that has taken place. And we have something of a picture, looking back with the bread and the cup, picturing the body and the blood of Christ. In His body, what? He was the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. That’s what was pictured in that animal, one without defect in the picture. Because what was ultimately needed was one who would qualify to take my place. He had to be sinless. And more than just a man. But the God-Man could take the place of man, and shed His blood. So, when we come by faith, we’re placing our faith in what God has promised. That Christ is the sacrifice, offered on our behalf. In effect, when we place our faith in Him, it becomes effective for us. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. So, just going through motions wouldn’t do it. Just coming and offering a sacrifice without faith is an offense to God, thinking just the rituals saves me. It’s my faith in the God who has promised to accept this on my behalf. When that’s offered in faith, then it’s accepted.

So, what is pictured? You see the importance of it and it is to be respected and honored. This does not do anything to save us. These are just physical elements. Anymore than that particular animal could save that person. It’s faith in what is represented here, the promises of God. And now we can look back and see the fulfillment of it. The One who is the propitiatory sacrifice. The propitiation, the One who turns away wrath from us, by bearing it Himself. That animal, turned away the wrath by taking the place, paying the penalty, dying to prefigure the ultimate sacrifice in death.

We look back and see those animal sacrifices and the sacrifices that pervade Israel’s history, and we see the clarity of it. How gracious God is, to make a provision for people that are undeserving and unworthy, but are the recipients of His love and mercy. And this is to cause us to look back and realize, God had His Son come to this earth to do what those animals could never do, but what they could prefigure. The wages of sin is death. The blood has to be shed, because the life of the flesh is in the blood. The life has to be given. But God would provide the One who would be His sacrificial Lamb. We saw that in the book of Revelation, remember… in heaven in Revelation 5, celebration in heaven. Because the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the One who is the Lamb of God, has made possible the redemption of fallen humanity and fallen creation. So, that we, through faith in Him, can experience forgiveness of sins. How blessed we are. The beauty of it, the clarity of it, in a sense the simplicity of it. We don’t go through all the details because, we now celebrate a completed, finished sacrifice. Finished work. But it’s so important that God, through Christ, had this instituted as a constant, ongoing reminder of the importance of it for us as God’s people.

Let me just go back to a question addressed in a previous study. And I thought maybe I ought to just elaborate a little bit. Because it does get some attention. Are we dichotomists or tri-chotomists? In other words, we believe that there is a distinction between the spirit and the soul. So, if you are a tri-chotomist, you believe that the individual is body, soul and spirit. If you’re a dichotomist, you believe there is the material part, the body, and the immaterial part, you could call it the spirit, the soul. I thought I would just draw to your attention, there are a number of other words used for the immaterial part. So, we get caught up when it talks about soul and spirit. But go back to Deuteronomy 6, that’s where I want to go. Deuteronomy 6:4, “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.” We say, well, now do we have man being comprised of multiple parts? Your heart, your soul, your spirit? Really, what he is talking about is your entire being. You know -- all your heart, all your soul, all your might. We grasp that, we use similar kind of terminology today. It’s not necessarily making a distinction between heart and soul.

Well, come to Mark 12 for the New Testament. I really just want you to see, there are different words used for the inner part of our life. Soul, spirit, heart, mind, intestines. In Mark 12, looking at verse 21, well, we are in Mark 12, you can look at verse 30, that’s not the verse I was going to use. “You shall love the Lord your God,” he is quoting the Old Testament, “with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” Same idea, you see here… he’s added in that verse, he refers to it… your heart, your soul, your mind. Wait a minute, now we have heart, soul, mind. Then we have other verses that talk about spirit. I think really, we’re just talking about all that you are, every part of your being. That’s hard for us, we talk about, you know, our heart. I love you with all my heart. Well, it’s a figure of speech. I know, when you’re in love, your heart pounds, but you know, really it’s a figure of speech. It’s not particularly that particular organ. All my mind, that all I am. I love you in my strength would refer more to my body. So, you have these interchanging words that refer to the immaterial part.

You can back up to Mark 7, probably going to go first, and verse 21, “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts.” Well, out of my heart come my thoughts? We’d say, out of the mind of a man comes the thoughts. But what is he talking about? Your inner person. You know, when the Old Testament says the heart, Jeremiah 17, is desperately wicked, deceitful. Well, the heart that pumps the blood, is a physical organ, but it is used to represent your inner person. Here it’s your mind. “From within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts” I thought my thoughts came in connection with my mind. No, it’s connected with the physical brain activity, more than the heart that pumps the blood. Well, really these things just come to our inner person. Philippians 1:8, talks about affection, but really we talk about our intestines. And we talk about that, oh, that was like I was punched in the gut. Well, we’re talking about, it just hits me right here. Doesn’t have anything to do with your intestines particularly.

So, all that to say why I think dichotomy is the stronger view. I just dealt with it, in not being able to make a distinction between soul and spirit. But if you’re going to do that, then you have soul, spirit, mind, heart, intestines, kidneys. You know, they all come to where you have feelings. You know, my stomach is churning. Well, it does affect us, but it’s a figure of speech, that I feel it, but on the inside here. Where my heart is pounding, I feel it here, but really, we’re expressing something that’s going on inside of us. My mind is in turmoil, these kinds of expressions are referring to inside of us what’s going on. We say, boy, I look strong on the outside, but I’m coming apart on the inside. All those refer to what? What goes on within us in the inner person. And I think that’s what the bible is talking about. So, I thought I’d just elaborate that, so you didn’t think it’s just soul and spirit. But there are other things involved in that, and not just that.

Let you… if you have anything, questions on anything I’ve said or anything you’ve come with.

Question: In light of what you’re talking about, I’ve often wondered about the Spirit of God indwells a believer, so we have that Spirit in us as well as our own spirit. I’ve just wondered. You suppose the Holy Spirit issues us into the presence of God at our death?

Answer: Does the Spirit of God issue us into the presence of God at our death? Ok. Yes! I don’t know. Ha ha. You know, the Spirit of God indwells us. What will be our condition in our glorified body? And what will be the relationship to the Spirit, who now indwells us? Is there a change in that? I mean, He will bring about the change, I take it. Because He’ll transform us into conformity with the body, the Christ-like, Christ’s glorified body. But does He continue His indwelling ministry in us? Would Old Testament saints experience an indwelling of the Spirit at death, when they are transported to heaven? Or when they get a glorified body, or at some time in the future?

Some of those things, I don’t know are clearly laid out in scripture. We know we get a glorified body and the power of the Spirit brings about that transformation. In one sense you think, well, I don’t like to think now He leaves me. I have him within, I’d like Him to stay there. I don’t know of a verse offhand. Somebody may help me out on that, that would directly address that. Am I getting to what you… ?

Q: Well, it’s just a speculation, but he goes somewhere.

Well, our human spirit is different than the Holy Spirit. So, our human spirit is part of who we are. And that will continue, because that’s our human spirit, our immaterial part, our soul, what we are. So, that will be part of us being transformed. Like when the bible says, the heart is deceitful, but now being made new, and then with a glorified body, all sin removed. But our spirit will still be there, because Adam became a living spirit, had spirit of life breathed into him. So I take it our human spirit continues, that’s distinct. The Holy Spirit is distinct from our human spirit now, but He indwells us and acts on our spirit, or our mind, or our heart. That’s part of His work, we are to submit to the Spirit. We think, that’s an act of the mind, but we want our entire being to be submitted to Him. So, that’s in effect saying, I want my inner person and my outer person to come into conformity, being in submission to the Spirit. Well, my inner person is submissive to the Spirit, my outer person manifests it with the fruit of the Spirit. But yes, there is a distinction between the human spirit and the Holy Spirit. And I think that will be true. Now, the way the Holy Spirit works, we see Him represented in heaven, the seven spirits before the throne. But whether He continues to indwell us in the glorified body, I don’t know. But our human spirit continues. Yes, and will be perfected when all sin is removed. So, we’ve been born again, so we’re the new man, with all that that entails within. But that will be brought to perfection when we’re glorified. And that would include our spirit.

Q: Ok, thank you. The Holy Spirit then just returns to Himself? Or how would you describe that?

Well, the Holy Spirit, being God, not only, and this is where we get, it’s sort of like a great article on the omniscience and all-knowing of God. The Holy Spirit is God, so He’s present everywhere, as well as present personally within us, each one individually. It gets to be somewhat difficult for us to grasp, because we think of Him as a person. If He’s indwelling me, there’s a personal aspect to that. But He’s indwelling you, and there’s that personal aspect of that, but there’s not a place in the world He is not present, because as God He’s omnipresent. As the Father is and the Son is. So, in that sense, that’s why I say, we see Him personally manifesting His presence as the seven spirits before the throne of God the Father. Just like we see God the Father on the throne, but He is not limited there, because He is present everywhere. You know, if you go to the depths of the ocean, He’s there. If you go to the depths of hell, He’s there. You can not go anywhere to escape the presence of God. And that would include the Holy Spirit.

I mentioned Clyde Ingerson this morning when I would talk to him a little bit about this. I’d say, what do you think about that Clyde? He would say, oh, I try thinking about it, it gives me a headache. Ha, there’s a little bit of that, God is so totally unique, I have nothing to compare it too. So, in a sense I take it by faith. He personally indwells me, He is there but He is just as real every place in China. So, that’s part of His being God. So, He’ll be present in heaven. Now, whether He’ll still maintain a presence within the redeemed as part of the New Covenant provision provided by Christ -- and would that be necessary in our redeemed glorified bodies? Because there’s no indication that Adam before the fall was indwelt by the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God was present, who hovered over the face of the deep at the creation, was involved in the creation. But there’s no indication the Spirit of God indwelt Adam. So, you could say, well, will we need, or will people need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? I can’t give you a good answer on that one.

But He is separate from our spirits. So, our spirit will remain with our body. In fact, what happens at death… the spirit leaves the body and then at the resurrection the spirit moves back into the body. So, the body without the spirit is dead. The spirit doesn’t cease to exist, but the body no longer functions. So, again you have that inner part of your being that gives you life, the spirit. When the spirit leaves, the body is dead. And so at the resurrection, the body will be raised, the spirit has been in the presence of God… so the spirit, our human spirit, can have an existence outside of our body, and will.

We had the service for one of our believers this week. Well, he’s just as alive and conscious and alert, probably more than ever, in the presence of God in heaven. But his body remains here on earth. And there’s some kind of tangible form to that spirit. Angels are spirit beings, so they have a limited… I don’t want to call it a form, but a spirit like an Angel or a Demon can’t be everywhere at once, they can only be in one place at a time. And they are confined to that. So, Satan is not everywhere, he is everywhere in the person of the fallen angels, the demons who serve Him and do His will. But He can only be in one place at a time. So, I take it, the spirits in heaven see each other. Otherwise it would be a lonely place. Nobody is here. And you might hear a voice and say, oh, we’re here. That wouldn’t be very comforting.

So, I take it, the spirits can manifest themselves like angels could and do. And a spirit, when it leaves the body, I take it, it’s transported into the presence of God. The role of the Holy Spirit, the bible doesn’t focus… you’ll understand how I mean this, particularly on the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Now, there’s much there about the Holy Spirit, but it focuses more on God the Father and primarily God the Son who now is the full manifestation of the triune God.

And it’s why Jesus could say, he who has seen Me has seen the Father. Because He is fully God just as the Father is fully God. But He is distinct from the Father, so He’s not saying, I am the Father. That’s a heresy that only one person is manifesting Himself in three forms. Modalistic Monarchianism it’s called. Where they said, oh, and we sometimes use the example, just like a man can be a worker, can be a husband, can be a father, that illustrates God. No, it doesn’t. Because that’s one person seen in three different ways or conditions. God is three distinct persons. It’s where we grapple, what would be a good illustration? And they all breakdown to one extent or another. Because He is the only one of His kind, because He’s the only God. “Besides Me, there is no other”. We are like Him, because we become partakers of His nature, righteousness, holiness, fruit of the Spirit and so on. But that distinction… a fascinating area. What happens when we have these discussions, is then I run home and get out my theology book, and then I’m behind in getting ready for Sunday, because that’s not what I’m supposed to preach about. So, we may never get to my next book study, because you keep making me go look at these things, and I say, I’ve got to read a little more on that.

Question: Hi, pastor Gil, I’m thinking about the temple and the sacrificial system we saw in Solomon’s and Zerubbabel, it’s going to be a functioning temple in the millennial reign, and Christ though is ruling in the millennial reign, so why would there be a need of a functioning temple in the millennial reign?

Here you go again. Ha. That is a question that theologians wrestle with. John Whitcomb, I use him as an example, because many of you remember him. He has spoken here. He has written a paper, and he thinks that one of the purposes will be ceremonial cleansing. Because you will have people in physical bodies on the earth. And there will be defilement and so on. You have unbelievers on the earth during the millennium. So, he thinks for the ceremonial cleansing which would look back to what Christ did. That will be part of it. So, you get into the discussion, would it be like the communion service? That it will be a memorial? Will it provide an actual function like ceremonial cleansing? So, there are a variety of ways of looking at those things. It would seem to be connected with sin being present on the earth at that time. Because I don’t think there will be any indication that that sacrificial practice will go on in the New Heavens and the New Earth, from what at least we have. It would seem that death in all forms would be removed at that time. Yes, that’s a couple of possibilities, is it a memorial, is it providing ceremonial cleansing? A number of books on the kingdom will give some various… off the top of my head, I can’t remember. Maybe some of you will have read on it and say some of the other explanations. It is not, as sometimes misunderstood, the Levitical system revived. There are significant differences in what will take place in that sacrificial system. But it’s important, Ezekial 40 to 48 unfolds a lot of detail there on what will go on in that millennial temple. But that’s two possibilities. It is a reminder looking back, just like the Old Testament sacrifices look forward. Or it could provide a certain picture of the ceremonial cleansing that people need. At least Whitcomb and others who have followed him in that, hold to that. I have to do more reading on that. Get myself up-to-date. Good.

Question: This is a simple question. (laughter) No, it is. Nicodemus in John 3, is now alone with the Lord, did he become a believer and is there scripture to support that?

Did Nicodemus become a believer? I think he did. Where are you? John 3, got a verse? Oh, you’re talking about Nicodemus, I’m thinking about someone else. Ok, why would we say Nicodemus became a believer? Well, he seems to come with faith and follow the explanation, and then when it comes to claim the body of Christ, Nicodemus comes. So, that would seem that he has taken the step, he’s not afraid to step out even after the trauma of the crucifixion. Where is the reference in John? John 19:38, “After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus,” so he’s identified as a follower of Christ, “but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body. Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night,” so that there’s no question that this is the same Nicodemus of John 3, “also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloe,” and so on, and “they took the body.” So, that would cause most, in light of the conversation Jesus had with him, and then the follow-through here that Nicodemus wants to take this step… as one who Jesus identified as teacher, uses even the definite article, “the” teacher, so he may have been a very prominent teacher in Israel in John 3… step forward here and come with Joseph of Arimathea, who is identified as a disciple. Probably those are the reasons we would say he probably, genuinely believed. If he didn’t, he’d have probably faded into the crowd. You don’t even find the other disciples that we would have expected to be here, they are in a little bit of chaos. But I think that’s the prime reason. I don’t know that there’s another passage that we connect him.

Comment: Gil, I was wondering if this verse might fit that question on the Holy Spirit, John 14:16. If you want to look that up, and maybe you could go ahead and read that and see it that would fit.

“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.” I have a question on ‘forever’, whether how far that would go. And, you know, that could be, He will be with us forever, through eternity, because we’ll be in the presence of God in that sense. I don’t know whether the ‘forever’ would go beyond, what’s going to take place in eternity. Although, they will dwell in the presence of God, so in that sense He would be. But, I don’t know whether that passage would indicate a permanent indwelling forever. It wouldn’t bother me if it did, but it would seem that the evidence is primarily dealing with throughout our entire life. There are times when ‘forever’ focuses on that. You know, we tell someone, I love you forever. Well, life goes on, if something happens, the person dies or something. But this verse could be taken for that. I wouldn’t want to go to the wall and say, no, it doesn’t mean that. But, you know, Christ will be with us, “I will never leave you or forsake you,” I won’t leave you orphans. So, in that sense, He is present with us.

And in one sense, I think you can build a case, and this is a little aside from your question, but we’ve been talking about this area. That all three persons of the triune God do indwell us. Because it’s spoken that way. Sometimes we explain, well, Christ is present in us in the person of the Holy Spirit. But we have to be careful, we begin to merge the person of the Holy Spirit with the person of Christ. When Christ says He will be present in us, that’s not the same thing as the Holy Spirit being present in us. So, I think some of the writers, like John Walvaard, his name comes to mind, don’t hold me to that, but I think it’s not unusual for those who write on it, to say all three persons of the triune God do indwell us. But it’s the ministry of the Holy Spirit that’s focused on. But the ‘forever’ there, would for sure be through the course of their life. And He will be with them through eternity, because we dwell in the presence of God for eternity. But the indwelling presence, I think the strongest case you might make was the provision in the New Covenant for the indwelling Spirit. And everything from the coming Christ, everything before is predicated on what Christ would do to provide for the implementing of the New Covenant. So, you might make a case that that would mean the Holy Spirit will be permanently indwelling people through eternity. We’ve got so much to find out when we get there.

Comment: Yes, Gil to piggy-back on what you were just saying, look at Ephesians 1:13.

Ephesians 1:13, “In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as (a down payment) or a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession.” And that may indicate that when that is fulfilled, the Holy Spirit indwelling ministry has been fulfilled. So, you could take it that way. That He’ll bring about the transformation of our body. No reason He couldn’t continue indwell it. And you may want to read back then, that Old Testament saints were saved on the basis of the provision Christ would make… which is the foundation for the New Covenant… so, they would be indwelt by the Spirit. I’m a little uncomfortable going too far with the permanent indwelling. I would say that’s going to carry us through the redemption of the body. Is His indwelling necessary in a glorified body? Or in the body of those who will never be glorified? If I understand the book of Revelation correctly, but they will go on into eternity in physical bodies. But if they be like Adam… there’s no indication Adam was indwelt by the Spirit. I’m talking about before the fall, not after the fall either. But just talking about it as God created him.

If we’re talking about we are fulfilling what the original intention of the creation was, Adam didn’t need the indwelling of the Spirit. God created him and he was complete and good as God wanted him to be. So, the indwelling of the Spirit is connected with our salvation. I’d say no doubt what His ministry is today. How that will all carry out in eternity… Because He’s the down payment of our inheritance. And our inheritance is realized, as mentioned here and in Romans 8, which we are all groaning for, and anticipating the redemption of the body.

Well, will He continue to indwell when that part of His ministry is completed? Not as clear on it or sure. Like I say I could go either way I guess. I don’t see a clarity on it. But I wouldn’t have a problem if He does. But the body could be perfected by the ministry that the Spirit will have in that. The triune God works in such harmony with each other. You know the work of salvation can be talked about as the work of the Father, the work of the Son and the work of the Spirit. Because they all play a vital part, and yet a distinct part. So, you can emphasize the distinction, but you can emphasize what is being brought about. We know the Spirit indwells us now. Will He be indwelling us in eternity, where loved ones who are now in heaven in their spirit, also indwell in their spirit by the Holy Spirit? I don’t know. It’s connected to the body and the down payment to redeem the body. So, that’s about as far as I am in it. Some of you ought to do a study, a class on the Holy Spirit. Of course you’re no dummies on it. You know what I’m going to do now. I’m going to go home and pull down my theology on the Holy Spirit and read. And I need to get started. We got to do a new study on Sunday. But you realize, and the sad thing is, you forget part of what you thought you learned. So, now you’re trying to catch up on what you forgot. You’re trying to learn what you never learned. We’ve got all eternity. It will take that long. We’ll never exhaust the knowledge of God. And that’s something my mind can’t grasp. In a hundred trillion years, I’ll still have things to know about God, and learn about God. I’m getting a headache so we better close in prayer.

Let’s pray. Thank You, Lord, for Your word, for its depth, for its riches. Lord, it’s good for us to be stretched, to question, to challenge, to mull these things over. We want to be diligent students of the word. What You have not revealed, we can not know. Lord, there is so much You have revealed. And the more we learn, the more we realize we have to learn. And the more we understand of Your word, the more we realize there is to yet be understood. And may that challenge us. May it stir us. May it keep us being diligent in our study of Your word, and our being taught Your word, and teaching Your word, and talking about Your word. So, we continue to grow and grow and anticipate even more eagerly, when we will be brought into Your presence and have the ability to know and learn and grow with increased capacity. We look forward to the week before us, as You use us in a variety of ways, and a variety of places, and a variety of situations and circumstances. May at all times and every place that we be faithful. We pray in Christ’s name. Amen.